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Welcome to Diary of a Dreamer, where resilience unlocks your potential. I’m Tasha Eizinger, and each week I’ll bring you powerful stories and practical insights from my own experiences and inspiring guests. Whether you’re facing challenges or chasing dreams, this podcast is your go-to for motivation, building confidence, and practical tips for transforming obstacles into opportunities. Be sure to check out my website, TashaEizinger.com.

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Let’s dive into today’s episode and start turning your dreams into reality. Today we are with Lisa Tussey. She is like one of the pioneers of homeschooling, if you will, and has seen the changes over the years of what homeschooling started like and is going to talk a little bit about her journey with that and what it’s like today. She also has her master’s degree in instructional design from IU.

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As a Purdue Boilermaker, I think we can get along today. It’s going to be all right. And so now Lisa also teaches solopreneurs and homeschooling parents how to create effective courses to make it, I’m sure, fun and exciting and educational all at the same time. So Lisa, thanks for being here today. I’m excited to visit with you. Yeah, thank you for having me.

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I love what you’re doing with resilience and courage, and it’s just such important work. Thank you. Yeah, we know that children are so moldable, and we want to mold them in a way that will help them now and in their future, right? So that’s why we do what we do, right, Lisa? Absolutely. Yeah. So we met because of the Midwest.

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homeschool expo we are vendors at the event and it’s june 28th in indianapolis so as we were on this zoom we were messaging back and forth about doing the podcast together today so it’ll be fun to actually meet you on june 28th in person as well well so can you share a little bit about what you’re going to bring to the expo so people know

02:14

So I am going to do a workshop on how to create your own course or unit study, and we’re going to do it in real time. So it’s going to be with audience participation. So just going to show you how, you know, you don’t have to have a lot of prep to be able to do this. i did that with my own children um with creating my own children’s courses didn’t quite realize that that was instructional design at the time and then when i got my master’s degree it was like well i’ve been doing this for a long time like that’s amazing so actually you are running a workshop do you also have a vendor booth as well so people i do i have a vendor booth as well and so i have services and online courses to learn how to use this framework because even though there’s a lot to instructional design

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I realized that when I had to train other, I was a lead instructional designer creating courses for colleges and universities. And so I had to train other instructional designers in, you know, how the university needed to do it, how we worked, the templates we used. And I realized it could be distilled down to five pretty easy steps to follow. And so that’s what I have done and created. And, you know, homeschoolers are the ideal market.

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I help solopreneurs entrepreneurs as well, particularly for online courses for their businesses. But homeschoolers are perfect for it because nobody cares about their learners more than homeschoolers. That’s true. Nobody should care about your own education, your own health, your own wellbeing than you do anyways. So I like that you’re teaching them how to be proactive in that and effective at the same time. And I think that’s the beautiful thing about the homeschool community in general is that’s what they’re doing. I did grow up in public school. My kids go to…

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private school i taught at an inner city parochial school and i’ve considered homeschooling as well but we love where our girls are at so we’re keeping them there but i think what’s so great about nowadays is there’s options so parents can pick what’s best for their family and their children so i love to backtrack back before homeschooling was a viable option curriculums weren’t everywhere it was illegal too

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Right? It was illegal when I started. There were two states where it was still illegal, Iowa and Michigan, and I lived in one of those when we started. So, okay. Tell me a little bit about that. Yeah, so I actually got into homeschooling when I was in junior high school. A friend, his mom got…

04:54

just kind of disgusted with the system and she was very much into children having rights and she’d be allowed to have more control and more autonomy and so she pulled him and his younger brother to homeschool and she invited me to go to the courthouse and research the laws and homeschooling in the state so that they could see like what their rights were and what they had to do she took me to a homeschool conference which was like just the most

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fascinating thing it was at a campground and it was done by a group of homeschoolers who were trying to get professionals to all buy into the same neighborhood so that children would have access to doctors and architects and they would be part of their just learning community but this was at a campground and it was like um kind of like you know still kind of hippies like hippie parents

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um and so i remember one night like after dinner they were like okay children now just all bring your instruments don’t worry about being able to read music we’re just gonna all play we’re just gonna play it’s just gonna be beautiful i mean no organization i love this so they were all right to be fair i have friends who are public school teachers who are phenomenal

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right yes but just like any really great teachers yes but there’s good and bad in every profession there’s also just different philosophies of how people want their children raised and the information they’re receiving and all of that but we have to laugh at the fact that that was the beginning of it and why people didn’t take it seriously outside of that world right of okay so this is not true instructional design the way it

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really needs to be to develop their brains. But I do love people who are innovative and pioneers and ready to take action. And, you know, and it was very, it’s interesting because there’s this cycle particularly that I’ve gone through because that was my introduction and it was a secular. homeschool conference right and about the only person that you could find to read with real research on the time was john holt and he did a whole bunch of books that highly influenced me um teach your own children is kind of the book that like launched the homeschool movement so the homeschool movement was really launched out of the secular um area and then the religious

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uh families really took hold of it and made it really popular and kind of ran with it and made it much more structured and even though there were a lot of religious families doing unschooling now we have a lot of secular families um really taking root and doing more um more learner-led um unschooling kind of approaches like i experienced at that conference um which was you know just

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like i said just a really fascinating experience and to me one of the things that struck me later when i was an adult because of all the research i decided before i ever even graduated high school that i would homeschool my kids like i was like this is what i’m doing and but what fascinated me as an adult i um when i homeschooled we were very um we were in the evangelical movement i’ve since deconstructed but at the time we were very much into the

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um religious way of homeschooling and what struck me was at that conference way back when i was in junior high was the reasons that parents gave for homeschooling were the same didn’t matter if they were secular homeschoolers or if they were religious they wanted to raise their children

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according to their values and their belief systems. They didn’t want to delegate that to somebody else. They wanted to do that. And part of doing that was educating their children. I do like the fact of like taking responsibility for your education, whatever that looks like, whether it’s teaching your child in a school setting to speak up and ask questions and self-advocacy. I think that’s all important.

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for developing their mind and who they become in the future. And I also like that parents are saying, hey, instead of complaining about the school or the structure, I’m just going to do the best I can for my children. And I think as parents, we can all relate to that, that we want to do what’s best for our kids, whatever that looks like. So I think that’s interesting that regardless of secular or religious, it’s that same mentality of I’m…

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really trying to be the best parent I can be for my child. And I think that’s beautiful. We need people thinking that way. Yeah, exactly. And there’s lots of ways to do that, right? Like homeschooling isn’t the only way to do it. But I think it’s a significant way. And I like that people are considering it. And I know some people do it short term or for certain grades as well. Some people do it all the way through, which is great.

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you know, there’s options available now that weren’t when you first started. So what year-ish did you start? Yeah, I think the first conference that I went to as an adult was probably in 89 or 88 or 89. And so that’s when we started. My son, I was very much of the unschooling perspective. I had a really great publican.

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elementary school education in an open classroom where we didn’t have grades and we were allowed to have a lot of control over our learning and we had multiple grades in one classroom and it was team teaching and we were allowed to learn at our own pace so i saw that these components could work right like i didn’t need someone so i was really fortunate

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because that’s you know a lot of homeschoolers are riddled with doubt like how can i do this right and i was like i’ve seen it done like i know it i know these lived it yeah i lived it like i know it works you know it could work really well so um so i was fortunate with that um that kind of added to it besides all of the research um but when i

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When I got started, you know, the big barriers were legality, community support, and lack of curriculum. And so, you know, much to, you know, the topic of your podcast, you know, that really built a lot of resilience because legally you had to learn how to work with people in the system. So if the system was against you, but that doesn’t mean that people are against you. So you learn how to work with people, you learn creative ways to still meet the requirements.

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and be able to do what you wanted to do we were we were actually um interviewing at one point um we were um and uh we were asked about um homeschooling and we were like we’re doing this like if we have to like you know if we could get thrown in jail um we knew parents whose kids had been taken away from them from children’s services for homeschooling and that is heartbreaking

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because yeah you sweat blood and tears before you decided to do this back then this and this family after that they would not they kept their curtains closed during the day they wouldn’t let their children go outside to play they wouldn’t go to the library during the day like they just hit during the day to just like not to make sure they didn’t have any trouble um i feel like i could go on a rant about the fact that there are children who are

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actually abused in their homes who are living in those homes and these are parents who are being loving and caring and supportive living in fear of their children being taken away like that to me is so heartbreaking it was it was really you know so the community support i mean i just you know i learned the value of that because

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you know you were you weren’t just like meeting at your local home school meeting to share curriculum ideas or you know give activities for the kids it was like what do we do are we prepared should we be doing this is it too risky is it like it was a matter of survival um and so to have that kind of support like really bonded you to other people and so that has really served me well you know moving forward to just see that level of community value

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I also think it’s important for people to know, listening to you, that first of all, this was not a decision anybody took lightly back then, especially. Yeah, definitely. It was a very well thought decision. This wasn’t just a, oh, I’m mad at the teacher and I’m doing this. It was a very well thought out decision. And secondly, you did live the model that you were wanting to duplicate with your own children in your childhood. And you’ve gotten a master’s degree in instructional design.

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homeschooling kids are less equipped, but they’re not. That’s not a legal case during this time where there was a, and it was probably partially because she was African-American. They took her to court for homeschooling because it was illegal in the state. And the prosecution knew that she worked for NASA.

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and so they assumed she was a cleaning woman because that right there is infuriating and as soon as you know as soon as it was revealed that oh no she has a master’s degree in science you know some kind of science to do with um with space some kind of space science degree um the case was pretty well because the whole case was predicated on you can’t possibly be smart enough to homeschool your children

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That could be like, we could unpack that for a long time. That’s so upsetting and kind of great. Yeah, just a lot of that kind of, you know, a lot of, I mean, the reasons that they would come. And honestly, you know, it always comes back to money, right? Because each school district gets so much money per child enrolled.

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and so it was more i didn’t really care about your kids for the most part it was more there was a dollar sign on the kids’ heads and they wanted that. I want to make your teachers know. Teachers love their teachers. We’re not here to attack teachers. No, no, no, not the teachers. The other thing we ran into was just lack of curriculum. And one of the things that’s fascinating, I won’t name the company, they’re still probably one of the top selling companies. They wouldn’t sell the teacher’s guides.

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I don’t know if they thought that parents were going to let their kids cheat or that you just weren’t smart enough to use the teacher’s guide. They would sell you the textbooks, but they wouldn’t sell you the teacher’s guides. That is so weird. Here again, from a financial standpoint, if we’re going to say it’s to make money, you would make more money by creating packages for homeschooling parents. I don’t know. Is that a legal thing that they legally couldn’t? I don’t know. They eventually did.

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start selling it and I mean they they you know to this day still make money hand over fist off of homeschoolers um but at the time it was just like yeah we can’t trust you with this it’s like trust me nobody’s keeping their kids home all day just for fun you know I loved what you said before like you know parents um you know who just don’t like their teachers because I was you know

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kind of the go-to person in a lot of the homeschool groups and so once the law relaxed and I actually moved to another state where it was more friendly to homeschoolers and as time passed and things were easier every once in a while I would get a call and the mom would be like you know the teacher did this and she was just so dumb and so I pulled my child out of school like what do I need to do and you know I was like well first of all I hope you have a good lawyer because your child’s true it.

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And then like, I never worried about those people ever because within two weeks, their kids were going to be back in school. The thing that I found over the years that was the most important thing is ask yourself why you want to homeschool and then evaluate. Is that a negative reason or a positive reason? Because the parents who wanted to homeschool because the school system is evil or their teacher was bad or.

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you know they they’re all idiots um that you cannot you cannot last a negative motivation very long you will you will give up pretty quick but if you have a positive motivation like i really want to instill these certain values in my children or i want my children to have more autonomy over what they’re learning or i want them to be focused on learning to learn and loving learning over you know

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batches of content. If you have those positive reasons for wanting to homeschool, then you’ll probably be just fine because you’ll figure it out. You’ll find support systems. You’ll find, you know, materials. If you’re not, you know, if you’re not skilled in teaching yourself, you’ll get other people to teach or you’ll use curriculums that help, you know, teach or, you know, I…

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When my kids were in high school, I knew someone who was fluent in Spanish. And so she taught them. And it was great because she taught them Spanish. We got a bunch of kids together in our neighborhood. And she taught them, but she taught them Spanish from the perspective of English as a second language. Ah, that’s interesting. And so it’s teaching another language without you yourself having to know the language.

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If that makes sense. So, and I actually was able to use that to teach somebody who was Chinese how to speak English. And I don’t know Chinese at all. But I was able to use those principles because she modeled them with the teenagers of how the principles of how you do that when you don’t know the other person’s language. That’s interesting. So what I’m hearing you say.

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like really good advice, solid advice. If it’s coming from negativity, anger only lasts so long. And once anger goes away, you’re going to be putting them back in school. No, there’s no energy to have. There’s not going to be the energy to do it. So you have to have a positive reason and a love for learning and finding your community, which is, I think, a lot more accessible nowadays than what it used to be, right? There’s so many communities all across the country.

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is that true yes i mean it’s harder in some parts particularly if you’re a secular homeschooler it’s going to be harder to find that community but it does exist and you know we have so much more community online in fact that’s one of the things that got me into instructional design was in the 90s there were these homeschool parents who were like there were forums and like you’d have to type and then wait for the answer you know a few hours later um and

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there were forums but there were also like moms um one uh one friend of mine they would get together like I don’t know, every Tuesday night at 10 o’clock after all their kids are in bed and they were from all over the country and they bonded so tightly that they would meet in person and people would fly from all over the country like once a year so that they could meet in person. And I started to see what the potential of online learning was. And I was like blown away with all of the resources and, you know, the way to like, you could have somebody from Japan, you know.

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teach your kids something or you could interview them and it was virtually no cost right and i saw how colleges and universities could leverage this and then in 2000 i was going to a small college and i got hired to create their distance learning program and i was like oh my gosh this is so great and i started seeing what they were doing for online learning and it was badly scanning textbooks and giving multiple choice tests i was like no

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This is not what we want to be doing. And it’s gotten better, but honestly, not a lot better because you can pump out a lot of courses if you just assign textbooks and reading and get multiple choice tests. But there’s this whole world available now and just incredible opportunities. And so I got really excited about that. And that’s what drove me to go and get my master’s degree.

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in instructional systems technology even though i was getting a degree for something else at the time i was doing with distance learning it was like oh yeah that’s not what i’m going to be doing i love that so you are very curious and a learner and also innovative so can you explain your summit first framework what does that entail yeah so it is

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I use a hiking analogy. I hike and kayak a lot. And so I’ve used that to kind of ground it. And so the summit first is you start at the summit of a mountain. So when you are going on a hiking trip for the day, if you’re hiking to the summit, you need to know where that summit is to plan your trip. And then you work backwards. And so there was some research and I think…

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late 90s early 2000s called understanding by design but casually it’s called backwards design because you start at the end goal and then you work backwards and when you do that you know exactly what to put in the course you don’t put any more or any less in it you know exactly whether or not the learner is successful or not because you know what it is and the learner summit destination is demonstrable it’s like what will they be able to do

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at the end of the course not you know will they be able to pass a multiple choice test on westward expansion but you know will they be able to um maybe articulate the reasons for the westward expansion right or maybe you want them to integrate some values that were demonstrated by the people who moved westward so you pick what it is you want done and then only things that support that goal go into the course so the next step then is what i call trail markers and those are like little goals that will help the learner be successful in that big goal so um they’re just kind of like you know um i use the example for entrepreneurs of

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teaching knitting and so you know if your summit goal is your learner is going to be able to knit a scarf at the end of this then those smaller goals that if they don’t meet those smaller goals they’re not going to reach that larger goal would be they’re going to need to know how to cast on they’re going to need to know how to do the basic stitches they’re going to need to know how to cast off and if they don’t you know if they don’t learn those three little things

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or learning those three little things supports that ultimate goal of being able to knit a scarf at the end of it. i call it the backpack and that’s like all the resources so then you analyze what resources will they need to be successful on this like do they need diagrams of how to cast on like line drawings do they need a video demonstration do they need written instructions you know do they need checklists what kinds of things are going to make them successful on those smaller goals so they’re successful smaller girls will make them successful on the summit goal and so that’s gathering all the resources then the

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trail map is organizing it. And I call it putting into kindling size pieces, an instructional design lingo. It’s called chunking, which is, I haven’t really found a better word than that. But, you know, if you’ve ever done like, you know, if you’ve ever been, I don’t know, like at a baby shower party and they have like the tray, right? And it’s got like 30 items on it. And then whoever can remember the most wins a prize. Well, if you have 30 items and you categorize them into

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these are office supplies, and these are kitchen items, and these are baby items, you’ll be way more likely to be able to process it and remember it. And so you do the same thing with your content. Once you have all the resources that you need to support those goals, then you chunk that down into little bite-sized kinds of pieces that you’ll be able to process.

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integrate into the learning and be able to learn from. There’s some other things that go along with the trail map, but it’s basically organizing all the content, deciding what’s the best way to learn it, because some things you can just read, other things you need, video demonstrations, you know, what’s the best way, and for your learner, right? Like, what are some ways that maybe they need, particularly if they’re neurodivergent, maybe they need some different strategies and techniques. And then the last thing for homeschoolers is what I call the hiking journal.

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and that’s documenting it all is making sure that you’re recording the progress particularly because particularly with homeschooling you’ll have these plans but then other resources and opportunities might come in so you have to have a documentation process in place because what you plan to do may not be how it actually works out you would actually do so you want to have some kind of a hiking journal at the end and if you’re a

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entrepreneur and you’re doing this then that last step would be what i call the trail guide which is putting it into usually an online course so that it’s all put together and able to be accessed by the learners i love the system you have put in place and how you described it with the analogies so stephen covey has the book seven highly or seven highly effective habits and

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start with the end in mind is one of the seven. And that’s what I’m hearing from you is start with the end in mind. And then of course, you’re creating all of these components within it, which all makes total sense. You know, I was an elementary school teacher and that’s, that’s what we did in the classroom of how you break things down and track it and make sure that they’re learning it and knowing what you’re wanting to do. So that totally makes sense.

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What are some of the things that you’ve seen that makes maybe a course higher quality and maybe easier to implement? Yeah, I think that it really needs to be, for me, it really needs to be learner-focused. You know, it really needs to be more about what does the learner need than what’s convenient for the teachers. Yes, yes. Whether you’re a parent or a teacher.

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or a professional teacher, right? It should be more, it should be focused on the learner. It needs to know what its purpose is, you know, which is the whole summit first thing, right? Like you need to know what you’re trying to accomplish and that it can accomplish that, right? Because sometimes we have goals that are really achievable or are so vague, right? I want my child, you know, to understand westward expansion.

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what does understand it mean? How do you evaluate that? Those are the questions we always ask. We would ask professors when we were creating their courses. It’s like, and how will we know they’ve achieved that? Let’s get to the criteria of how we will know that they’ve achieved it. Kind of like saying you just want to bake something. Well, what do you want to bake? A cake. What kind of cake?

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okay so what kind of cake and how many tiers and decorations right there’s a lot more to it so i like that it does need to be specific instead of small successes right so you know challenging enough that it’s a bit of a struggle create some resilience but not so challenging that it’s impossible to

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to achieve success so that’s you know that can be a little bit difficult to manage um checking the understanding so you know as homeschoolers it’s a lot easier to do that because we just have conversations right like i don’t need to give them multiple choice tests because i kind of already know you know i don’t really need to evaluate you know um their math you know with

30:04

with a written test so much because it’s like, yeah, I already know they can’t multiply. I already know that’s a problem. So we’re going to continue to work on that until we solve it. So, you know, not that you can’t have tests like that. They’re not valuable, but they should be because, you know, my elementary school didn’t have grades. And so the purpose of the tests were to let you as the student know.

30:31

how you were doing and it also reinforces what you’ve learned right it was more of a reinforcement exercise than it was a judgment exercise right it was a oh like look like you you know you answered this question correctly that now cements it in your brain that I know that. And that’s the correct answer. And, you know, you’re given kind of that confidence in it. So assessments like that should be used more as reinforcement than as some kind of a judgment. I agree with you. When my older daughter, because my younger one’s almost four, so she’s not old enough to be into the academia world. But my older daughter in fourth grade.

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when she brings home tests or papers i’ll say things like oh it looks like you understood the material not like wow you got an a plus or an a that’s amazing it’s like you understand the material or this looked like it was a little bit tricky do you have any questions or do you understand where you were confused on these problems instead of looking at it like you said as a benchmark of this is your identity you’re an a student and you know you’re going to be so successful right it’s

31:44

It’s just monitoring where they’re at and where maybe they need some more reinforcement. And yeah, knowing where the gaps are and knowing whether those gaps are important enough to address or if it’s kind of like, yeah, if they don’t know all the details of the Civil War, I think we can move on with life. Like, I think it’ll be okay. Yes, as long as they know the important aspects of the Civil War, right? Exactly. Oh, they got the big picture. Yeah.

32:12

I was in a homeschool forum the other day and the mom had a four-year-old and was getting ready to start. And she had said, you know, I haven’t been at school for 23 years. Like, I don’t remember anything. How am I going to do this? And my response to her was like, exactly. You don’t remember hardly anything. So it’s really not all that important.

32:36

okay like yes you want to make sure your child can read and work with numbers and understand scientific principles and and you know and and the you know the principles or or the themes in history right but you’re going to do that you’re going to be okay and you’re going to have a lot of curriculum as well but also remember you don’t remember very much

32:57

Well, and I think it’s important that people learn how to use their own brain. You know, the buzzword is critical thinking skills. And there’s a lot of people that throw that term around thinking that they’re using critical thinking skills. And I’m like, but you’re not. You’re really not. You read an article that’s not critical thinking. And so teaching children how to use their brains and how to use their resources and find information. And like you said, understanding the general themes of history.

33:25

the bad parts of history are not repeated is very important but we’re not going to remember every single date every single detail that’s like impossible to do that your child you know never learns anything about Paul Revere for example they’re they’re not going to be you know crippled for life I think they’ll survive they’ll be okay but they should understand you know that we broke from Britain and why they should understand those

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big picture things about the details of how they learned those things. You know, so much flexibility and so many resources and so many different opportunities to approach it that, you know, just have a lot of fun with it. Let your, you know, let what the child needs be, you know, how you approach that. Is it, you know, through reading books? Is it through running around? We were doing some memorization exercises with my

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to oldest when my youngest was he was three or four and he wasn’t hadn’t officially started school yet so i wasn’t making him do anything and so his brothers are reciting every day and he’s doing cartwheels he’s a very kinesthetic person so he’s doing cartwheels and literally every time his brothers hesitated he’d fill in what the next line was i love that as long as he was doing somersaults or cartwheels he he could yeah he could um

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process the information and recall it we learn better when it’s our learning style as well as having fun so he was having fun it was golden oh my goodness well i’m excited to meet you in person on june 28th at the midwest homeschool expo which I love that it’s open to anybody. And what I’m gathering from this event, even if it’s not a homeschooling parent, but it’s a parent who values education with their children and maybe wants to do summer programming or just learn about different books and resources available. I feel like this is a place for those folks as well. Because, you know, there’s a lot of parents who…

35:31

I mean, they’re very involved in their children’s education and they want to supplement. They want them to love to learn and learn how to learn and maybe follow a particular passion. And so you will find an incredible amount of resources and opportunities at the conference. So I yeah, I highly support the idea that whether you’re homeschooling or not.

35:57

It’s a great place to go for educational materials. Yeah, I’m very excited to meet you in person. So I get to see you there. How can other people get in touch with you? And do you have any giveaways or things like that to offer? Yes, so my website is called Connected Course Designs, and we’ll put the link in the notes in the descriptions. And there are two services and courses that I offer to people. One is for homeschoolers and then the other are for entrepreneurs. So if you have a business and your business could.

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you know, have an extra revenue stream from having courses or you already have courses, I help with that as well. And so I have courses on how to do it and I also have coaching services. So I have a seven session coaching service and I’m going to put a coupon. code for a hundred dollars off of that seven session coaching service if anyone’s interested and i also have we also put the link to the summit first framework i’ve created a 15-minute course that goes through the entire framework and how to use it and it has um it has a trail map to fill out as well and i think there’s a worksheet too on figuring out your summit first goal for a course so that

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gives you a complete overview of how to use the framework. And I give that away for free. Wonderful. Well, I’ll make sure I include all the links and information for everybody. And I really appreciate your time and sharing your passion today. It’s always fun meeting with somebody who’s inspiring and passionate and excited about life. So thanks for your time today, Lisa. Thank you. Thanks for having me.

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Thank you for tuning into this episode of Diary of a Dreamer. I hope you found the stories and tips shared today to be a source of motivation and strength. Remember, every challenge you face is a chance to grow and move closer to your dreams. Don’t forget to subscribe, leave a review, and share this podcast with anyone who could use a boost of encouragement. Please check out my website, TashaEizinger.com.